Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher
on Wednesday, October 3, 2001
Ted appeared on "Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher" on Wednesday, October
3, 2001. Guests on this program were:
Sayed Badreya - Egyptian-American actor
Niger Innes - Congress of Raciall Equality
Kennedy - Former MTV VJ
Ted Rall - Cartoonist and Author
Sparks flew and Ted's appearance became one of the most talked-about episodes
of the show ever. Here's a complete transcript of the procedings:
Panel Discussion
Bill: All right, welcome again to "Politically Incorrect." Let me introduce
our panel for you tonight.
I've been wanting to meet you for a long time.
This is Ted Rall.
He's a political cartoonist and the author of this timely book, "Search and
Destroy."
[ Applause ]
Next to him is the spokesman for the National Congress of Racial Equality.
I don't know how many times you've been on this show, but it's been many.
Niger Innis is over here.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
Nice to see you.
This is Sayed Badreya.
He is an actor, and his latest project is "Saving Egyptian Film Classics."
And of course to his right is Kennedy.
Kennedy: Hi, Bill.
[ Applause ]
Bill: Whom everyone knows and needs no introduction.
Okay.
Now the first thing I wanna talk about tonight is --
I don't know if you're aware that the Italian Prime Minister, who isime
minister.
Berlusconi is his name.
Silvio Berlusconi.
He made a comment the other day which has gotten him in a lot of trouble.
Join the club, Silvio.
[ Laughter ]
He basically said that our civilization is --
let me read it, a quote.
He said, speaking to a news conference, that "we must be aware of the
superiority of our civilization," meaning the West, "a system that has
guaranteed well-being, respect for human rights and, in contrast with Islamic
countries, respect for religious and political rights." And of course, he got
in trouble for that.
Let me be the first to say, Silvio, "Right on, Brother."
[ Cheers and applause ]
I have said for years and years on this show, you know, people in all their
political correctness wanna say that things are merely different.
Nothing is superior or inferior.
It's all just different.
Well, you know what? Respect and tolerance for difference is superior, and
I'm glad somebody said it.
[ Applause ]
Niger: Well, you know, the prime minister is echoing a book by Sam Huntington
called "Class of Civilizations" where Huntington lays out, basically, in the
21st century, there'll be a class between Western capitalism and Western
values, Islamic fundamentalism and Confucian culture.
But this particular crisis that we're in right now is not a manifestation of
the potential class of civilization.
When you consider that the coalition that President Bush and Colin Powell are
putting together includes, officially or not, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and
Pakistan, predominantly if not completely, muslim countries, the whole world,
60 countries, are rallying behind this country, because it's not about the
U.S.
Or the West versus Islam or Arabs.
It's about decency versus terror.
It's about good versus evil.
It's about religious freedom versus religious extremism.
[ Applause ]
Bill: That's certainly not how they see it on the Arab street.
The leaders of those countries may join with us.
The people on the streets --
in Pakistan, there are enormous demonstrations going on against their leader
who is siding with the U.S.
So if you wanna pretend that the people are all on the side of their leaders,
who are very often put in place by Western powers, you will suffer under
illusions as we always do.
Kennedy: Maybe he meant that Italian shoes and handbags are superior, because
they certainly are.
[ Light laughter ]
Ted: This is exactly the kind of arrogance that has gotten the United States
into the trouble that it's always in throughout the world.
The reason that so many Arabs are out dancing in the streets in places like
Karachi is because we have this incredibly snotty, arrogant attitude about
our culture.
It is just different.
It's different.
It's better in some ways than ours.
It's worse than ours in some ways.
I've been to these countries.
Bill: You mean letting women read? That's just different.
It's not better.
Ted: Turkmenistan doesn't have a death penalty.
We do.
That's uncivilized.
Bill: Well, picky, picky.
Ted: You can look at this any way you want.
Sayed: But I think, you know, as an Arab or Muslim, our responsibility to
tell people who we are, because nobody know us.
You don't know me.
Because you think about the people who does that.
And automatically you look at me.
But as an Arab and Muslim, we are a wonderful people who have the same dream
and the same struggle.
And I grow up in poor side Egypt.
And during the war, I was a little kid, go to the movies, sit there and hide
and watch American movies.
And here I am, come here because movies, because America.
And I love this country.
And part of it, my heart is aching.
[ Applause ]
Kennedy: But see, you're applauding, but you're saying that this country is
something to be embarrassed of.
I am so sick of that attitude.
One Italian Prime Minister said something, and all of a sudden, all Americans
are evil.
Ted: Do not smear me with that.
I love this country.
This country is great.
I just don't think that we need to tell the whole rest of the world how to
live.
Kennedy: We're not telling that.
It was one arrogant comment.
Bill: Wait a second.
Would you say that when the rest of the world --
not the rest of the it, but some parts of the world were saying to us, "You
know, you really should end slavery." You're welcome.
[ Laughter ]
They should have just minded their own business? What do we say to a large
swath of the world that keeps women basically in slavery? That it's just
different? That's just their culture?
Ted: We don't care.
We put these same regimes into power.
We financed the Taliban.
If we cared about it, we should have thought about it back then.
Bill: Yeah, we put them in power, but we didn't invent that.
They had that going on with the women.
Ted: And we didn't care.
[ scattered applause ]
Bill: Okay, but you're avoiding the question.
Ted: All we cared about was the oil 'cause this whole Afghan thing is all
about oil.
The biggest untapped oil reserves in the world are in Kazakhstan on the
Caspian Sea.
The shortest route out is through the Unocal pipeline that goes through
Taliban-held Afghanistan.
The only thing that the State Department cared about back in 1999 when they
met with the Taliban --
Bill: But that's a different issue.
I'm not saying that America is pure.
Niger: Big surprise, Bill, that a nation like America, as powerful as America
is, with interests all around the world is gonna operate in its own
self-interest.
But we have to keep perspective.
Nations have tended to do that.
The British Empire did it.
The Roman Empire did it.
Nations tend to do that.
But as far as a great country --
and some people call this the first universalist country --
we are the freest, most open, and we don't go to other countries and say that
you should do this, and you should do that.
[ Applause ]
We cajole other countries into freedom.
Bill: Okay.
Niger: That's what makes this country so great.
Bill: This isn't about going there and imposing it.
It's just about a guy saying, "Places where people can do what they want,
where they have freedom." In his apology --
this is his apology.
He says, "Those who see an enemy in freedom of religion and cultural
diversity are themselves our enemies." Now, I might ask you.
Why did you come to America?
Sayed: My dream.
America allowed me to be who I am.
And if I come here and bringing my being a Muslim or also being Egyptian,
bring it here and be part of America, part of the view of America.
My kids is American now.
Bill: But why couldn't you do it where you lived?
Sayed: I couldn't.
Bill: Okay.
That's what we're saying.
[ Applause ]
Kennedy: But Bill, this is an exceptional time for --
you know, this culture, if we are arrogant, and if we do have this sense of
superiority about our culture and our society, then this is an excellent time
for the United States, instead of people getting all heated up into a lather,
to really learn about Muslim cultures and Islamic countries and societies
that, you know, maybe we otherwise we wouldn't have had a chance to.
And maybe that will be one of the ultimately good things that comes from this
whole conflict.
[ Scattered applause ]
Sayed: Have you been to Egypt?
Bill: No.
Sayed: Let's just start with one person.
I'm serious.
Bill: But I read about it.
Sayed: No, no, no, reading is not everything.
I'm gonna adopt you, really.
Bill: You're gonna adopt me?
[ Light laughter ]
Sayed: Yeah, to come and become and know about us and know who we are.
We are a wonderful people, and we have so much to give.
I didn't leave Egypt because of the culture.
I left because of the opportunities America is gonna give me, and I bring
that with me.
Bill: But why wasn't the opportunity there?
Sayed: Our grandfather before me, your grandfather and grandfather, all of us
came to America, because the land of opportunity, and this is not just a
cliche.
This is real.
Bill: But excuse me, sir.
Before these attacks, what I was reading about that was going on in Egypt was
the trial of homosexuals simply for being homosexuals.
No one in Egypt had to, like, make a high-faluttin' case like Jerry Falwell
with the Bible and this.
It's just, "You're a homosexual.
You are in the dock." And that's hardly the worst that goes on.
Sayed: Absolutely.
Bill: Okay, so that's a fundamental difference between what goes on in
Western cultures.
Sayed: But this is politics.
It's not the people.
Bill: Tell that to the guy in the trial.
Niger: The beauty of America is that we lead by example.
We hope to cajole people to come our direction.
We do not impose our nation on other nations.
Essentially, Americans want to be left alone to pursue their own lives.
Bill: So when slavery was going on, nobody should have imposed.
It just should have gone on until we saw the light.
Niger: The fact of the matter is that slavery abolitionists and radical
Republicans within this country are the ones who rolled back slavery.
It wasn't because of the British coming to invade American shores.
Bill: You're right.
Niger: It was because Americans themselves exercising American freedom
realized that slavery was incompatible with our ideals.
[ Applause ]
Kennedy: "Radical Republicans"?
Bill: It took them a long time, though.
All right, we have to take a break.
We'll be back.
[ Applause ]
Bill: Okay, we're back.
Let me ask you about this guy.
I'm sure you've heard about him, Mr. Alhamzi of San Antonio.
Do you know who I'm talking about? When I heard about this guy, I said, "I
wanna give this guy a fruit basket." We normally only do this at Christmas
time, give fruit baskets to people.
Kennedy: You don't mean pulling your pants down and bending over, do you,
Bill?
Bill: I've never heard that expression.
Kennedy: You've never heard of a fruit basket?
Bill: No, we haven't been to prison like you.
[ Laughter ]
Kennedy: I didn't hear that in prison, but don't take the cuffs off, Honey.
Bill: No, I never heard that.
Never mind.
[ Light laughter ]
Anyway.
No, I meant a real fruit basket.
Kennedy: No, a "fruit bowl" is what it's called, actually.
Bill: Anyway --
Niger: This is an enlightening show.
Bill: Boy, things are getting back to normal.
This guy, his name is Alhamzi, which is the same name as two of the hijackers.
And what happened was the day after the attack, the FBI showed up at his
house at 5:00 A.M., they searched the whole place.
They revoked his visa card --
"Visa card." His visa.
[ Laughter ]
They hit 'em with the book.
[ Light laughter ]
And two weeks he was away from home.
They took him to New York.
They took him to Boston.
They interrogated him.
We understand why.
At the end of this ordeal, his own Congressman suggested that the FBI
possibly owed him an apology, and he said, "No, I respectfully say they
don't." He said, "It's time to cooperate with officials and hopefully get the
people or the evils who are behind this." So, yeah.
[ Applause ]
How about it for Mr. Alhamzi who I think has a marvelous sense of perspective.
And of course, we wouldn't hope this would happen to any Arab-Americans, but
I think, you know, my point of view is that tolerance works both ways.
You have to be a little tolerant now of our suspicions.
Sayed: Absolutely.
Is that the price, as an Arab --
actually as an American to go for two weeks, I will pay it.
To make people relax? I will pay it.
If I am one of the guys who are sitting there, not the hijacker, one of the
guys who went to Pennsylvania and the bomb, I'd be with the American fellow,
not with the terrorists.
But the problem is when the list will come, my name will be with whom? So if
that's the price you have to pay, why not? Because I don't want my kids to
pay ten years from now.
So I have to do the groundwork, and two weeks is okay, because I can live it.
Because I do it in the airport.
In the airport, I cannot travel with my kids, because I don't want the
profile, look at me and search me in front of my kids.
I allow them to go. Because look at me, I'm exactly what you're looking for.
[ Laughter ]
Kennedy: Well, you're so cute.
Sayed: But I have the heart of America, because what brought me here is the
heart of America, and we're all in this together.
[ Applause ]
Ted: But Sayed, I don't think you should have to put up with that.
As a caucasian-American and non-Arab-American, I would be the first to stand
up and say, "What are you doing to that guy?" There are almost no chances of
you, in fact, being a terrorist just randomly.
This whole idea of racial profiling is no different than what's been going on
with African-Americans for years.
And now we're just transferring it to a different ethnic group.
Niger: There he goes again.
I'd love the FBI to detain him for two weeks, to be honest with you.
That was a joke.
Ted: If the FBI is so stupid that they have to arrest every Arab-American to
get the right one, then we need to fire them and get a new FBI.
Niger: Look, these are extraordinary times.
Bill: Thank you.
Niger: It's going to take extraordinary measures domestically and
internationally.
[ Applause ]
It is a burden that all Americans, not just my Arab-American brother, but all
Americans are gonna have to bear.
Keep in mind, Abraham Lincoln during the civil war suspended habeas corpus.
Bill: Yes, he did.
Niger: A foundation of our legal freedom.
And the fact of the matter is, I don't think it's gonna get that far.
I doubt that it's gonna go that far.
President Bush has done the right thing.
He's come out.
He said, "Discrimination against Arab-Americans is unamerican." And having
John Ashcroft as the attorney general who throughout his career has expressed
reservations about an overzealous government, about an overreaching
government, we've got the right people in place at the right time.
But they're very sensitive times.
Bill: And I must take issue --
Kennedy: No, I think he's absolutely right, because every time John Ashcroft
holds a press conference, and every time President Bush addresses the nation,
the first thing they say is, "You know, we cannot discriminate against
Islamic-Americans.
We have to be accepting of all different cultures at this time.
And it gives no one a right to be racist."
Ted: But it's so hard to take anything from the bush administration seriously
considering that they didn't win the election.
Did everybody forget --
[ Scattered applause ]
[ Scattered boos ]
Niger: Ah, come on.
Kennedy: You bring that up now? If Al Gore can grow a beard to his knees, and
he's still not going to be president.
Ted: I mean, I'm sorry.
Niger: Al Gore said he's backing his president, President Bush.
Ted: But Al Gore is the president.
[ Speaking at once ]
Bill: That's so September 10th.
It really is.
[ Applause ]
Ted: It's extremely relevant.
Kennedy: How is that relevant? --
Because that's all you've got.
That's the only thing that you can say right now, and it's in the past, and
it's not true.
Ted: This President is using the death and martyrdom of 6,000 Americans to
promote such things as tax cuts for the wealthy, drilling in the Arctic.
Niger: Oh, that is so irresponsible for you to say.
Oh, give me a break.
That's a crock.
Sayed: But don't forget.
The big issue of the law.
As an Arab-American, I believe in the Constitution of the United States, and
two weeks is okay.
But in the end, I know the law in this nation will take me and say, "Sayed
Badreya is a nice guy." Two weeks is okay.
Why not?
Bill: Yeah, exactly.
"Two weeks is okay.
He's a nice guy." I think it's written right in the Constitution.
[ Laughter ]
Ted: I think if I were you, I would have the same exact attitude, but I think
that in my position, I should have the attitude of saying that it's wrong to
racially profile you.
Niger: Ted, I abhor most of your commentary tonight.
[ Laughter ]
But you have the right to say it, yes.
And at the same time, there has been irresponsible leadership on the part of
Jesse Jackson and Al sharpton, who I'm going to bring up, per se.
And let me applaud you, Bill.
Let me say that we don't agree on a lot of things, but I have to say that I
applaud you for bringing a diversity of voices from a variety of different
communities on this show.
[ Applause ]
Bill: This is about as diverse as it's got.
I have to take a break.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate that.
[ Applause ]
Bill: All right.
Niger Innis, you asked if you could finish your thought.
Of course you can.
Niger: I've just noticed, in the black community in particular --
I mean, all around the country, this revival of patriotism, and in the black
community in particular.
And it just shows a disconnect between media and their projection of certain
black leaders like Jesse Jackson playing footsie with the Taliban, trying to
mediate.
Al Sharpton saying that Rudy Giuliani hasn't done a better job at being mayor
over the last few weeks than Bozo the clown could have done.
And while promoting these guys, simultaneously, there's a stifling and a
censorship of legitimate black leaders who are more in tune with where black
America is right now.
I have to toot my own horn here.
My daddy, Roy Innis, the chairman of C.O.R.E., my boss.
You know, Alan Keyes.
Where are these voices heard in mainstream media? I mean, that's why I want
to applaud you and what "Politically Inorrect" does by bringing a diversity
of voices, because right now, legitimate voices from the black community are
being censored.
[ Applause ]
Bill: So you agree that Ted, even though we don't quite agree with Ted
tonight, that even this voice says --
it's sort of like burning a flag.
Ted is sort of like burning a flag.
It says to us, "You know what? We live in a country that is so great, we can
do it." That's why.
Nobody likes to see a flag burned, but it's the idea behind the flag that's
so much more important than the flag itself.
Any nation has a flag.
This nation has the right to burn the flag.
[ Applause ]
Ted: Not if the conservatives get their way, right? They'll get their
flag-burning amendment passed.
Kennedy: Oh, Lefty, come on, now.
[ Laughter ]
Bill: What do you think about these protests that are going on in colleges
now?
Ted: Well, I mean, the way I look at it is, the protests are just as
premature as the war.
I mean, I'd like to see, and I think a lot of people would like to see, the
same thing that Americans got to see during the Cuban missile crisis.
JFK showed the nation where the Soviet missiles were.
Again, if Osama Bin Laden and/or the Taliban are directly implicated in the
events of September 11th, I think we all deserve to see proof before our
brothers, sisters and fathers go and get killed in Afghanistan.
[ Applause ]
Bill: Oh, please.
They did plenty of stuff before this that we should have killed them for long
ago.
[ Applause ]
We don't need proof of this.
Ted: The thing is, this administration --
Bill: We tried to kill 'em before.
We just didn't try bad enough.
Ted: And that's one of the reasons that what happened on September 11th may
have happened, is because of that bombing in 1998.
That is, the thing is --
Bill: It happened because we didn't kill 'em when we should have killed them.
[ Applause ]
Ted: It is not the American way to sign a blank check to any leader.
We don't do that.
Kennedy: Well, sure it is.
We did it during the Vietnam War.
Ted: Yeah, look how well that worked out.
Bill: I don't have time in the rest of this show to list --
Sayed: Look at the language we've been speaking.
Killing, killing, killing.
I think the Mideast needs another Sadat, needs another Rabin.
Bill: Yes, absolutely.
Sayed: Needs someone to speak.
[ Scattered applause ]
Bill: Anwar Sadat.
There was a hero.
I have to take a break, but yes, you are so correct about that.
[ Applause ]
Bill: All right, FBI, let me save you two weeks.
Sayed's a good guy.
He's gonna give all the proceeds of his film to the victims.
Right?
[ Applause ]
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